Julian Assange and Daniel Ellsberg at the Frontline Club, 25th October 2010
Announcement
Following the leak by whistle-blowing website WikiLeaks of almost 400,000 secret US army field reports from the Iraq war between 2004 and 2009. Join Julian Assange at the Frontline Club this evening in conversation with one of the most famous whistle blowers in history, Daniel Ellsberg, who was responsible for the leak of the Pentagon Papers in 1971.
Chaired by Elizabeth Palmer, CBS News correspondent.
Ellsberg, questioned about objectives in releasing Pentagon Papers
Thought that the release of PP had an effect on public opinion, not on policy. However, the threat of possible further releases had an effect.
Assange, asked why releasing Iraq materials now that 'the war is history'
Commented that the war is not history: 50000 troops, possible revival of civil war, no government for months. Asked whether the release is likely to stir up more conflict: "the truth is the best place to start". Commented on the Pentagon's lies and the fact that the Pentagon has proved a less reliable witness than people in the street. PP showed that the President could not be trusted - Wikileaks Iraq material shows that the Pentagon cannot be trusted.
Assange on NYT
Referred to the profile of Bradley Manning as a "hit piece". Why: "balance".
Ellsberg on lies from Pentagon and administration
"We don't do body counts", when they were both counting and failing to investigate. Ellsberg believed that the bases will be permanent. Mentioned cover up of Haditha massacre.
Assange, asked why the release this week
Noted that policy of Wikileaks is not to announce when information will be released. Noted that last time it was possible to compare coverage in the various media partners. NYT spiked the story about Taskforce 373 (see http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/25/task-force-373-secret-afghanistan-taliban)
Noted also that matters relating to OGA (other government agencies = CIA, DIA, etc) not covered here.
Assange, asked about Iran
Noted that some of the Iraq material shows support from Iran for Shia groups.
Ellsberg is trying to bring out material that would help stop war with Iran.
Noted that the hot pursuit rules were changed as a result of a previously leaked document.
Ellsberg on Iran
Mentioned Hersh's revelations that Cheney in 2006 wanted to attack Iran with nuclear weapons. This revelation caused a change in policy. According to Philip Giraldi, Cheney was persisting in this until the last day of the administration, but overruled by Bush.
"Don't wait until war has started". Ellsberg expressed regret that he had not leaked earlier.
Also mentioned Hersh's stuff on US special forces in Iran.
Mentioned Tom Dispatch and Nick Turse.
Assange on aims, etc
Justice by means of truth. c.f. Murdoch press: Money by means of lies.
Ellsberg mentioned Phil Shiner and cases against UK government.
Assange about being "part of the story"
One person was suspended from Wikileaks and chose to resign. NYT story about "a dozen people" a fabrication.
Knowledge versus ignorance - James Madison.
Value of this: Wikileaks "busted" Daniel Arap Moi - $3b.
When seen to publish Pentagon material, can be trusted to publish anything.
Ellsberg, on whether Assange could be accused of giving comfort to extremists
The information in the leaks was not news to victims of torture. US obligations re torture. Obama has lied as egregiously as Bush: "I closed Guantanamo" and "I ended torture".
Thought that Cameron had told Clegg to back off on asking for investigation. [Check latest...]
Assange on Bradley Manning
"I had never heard the name Bradley Manning". Informants are and must be anonymous.
Ellsberg: on Bradley Manning
Noted that NYT never assisted him with his legal cases.
Assange on funding for Wikileaks, etc
Credit card processing was switched off after Afghan logs were released.
FBI raided Bradley Manning's mother's house in Wales.
New CC processing in Iceland.
On website, follow "help defend" link.
White Phosphorus
Assange was asked about Giuliana Sgrena and white phosphorus.
Reports for Fallujah low. Ellsberg: Fallujah 1 was not planned. There are also 2 months missing: why? Ellsberg: "shake and bake". The horrific effects of white phosphorus.